Watch for Updates

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The exchange took place on March 12, 2018 in a discussion thread on the FaceBook page of “Christian Holm” (aka C. Clarke Holm) which can be found at the following link:

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https://www.facebook.com/christian.clarke.holm/posts/1637751532967061

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The Exchange

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(1) From: C. Clarke Holm

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The reason why enforcer cells of the virus claim to the other cells that the messenger cell cares more about the message than converting back into the virus is because exposing the root of the problem is everything to defeating the virus. Therefore, the rogue viral agents will use violence, threat of life and family to enforce this virus mentality upon the innocent. Expose the Satan virus.

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(2) From: Robert Baty

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On the Baby Holm custody issue, my position, briefly stated, is that the State of Alabama was legally and factually justified in taking custody of Baby Holm in October of 2016, based on the provisions of Alabama Code Section 12-15-306.
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Let me know if you would like to discuss that.

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(3) From: C. Clarke Holm

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Do these laws exist of letters numbers symbols and or geometry? If they do then prove they exist to be enforced.

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(4) From: Robert Baty

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If you are interested in advancing the discussion I proposed, whether or not to entertain questions and related issues can be discussed and, hopefully, we will agree on a resolution of those issues and produce the proposed discussion.
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Let me know, explicitly, of your interest in advancing that discussion and resolving the related logistical details and, if you are interested, we will see what we can accomplish related thereto.

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(5) From: C. Clarke Holm

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First, we must accomplish being on sound ground and that the discussion is of substance, for if not then it is only a lie.

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(6) From: C. Clarke Holm

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Better yet. I like the original thought of ground.

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(7) From: C. Clarke Holm

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Sound exists after the thought.

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(8) From: Robert Baty

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I’ll take that to mean that you are not interested in advancing the proposed discussion. Let me know if you change your mind and we can negotiate the details as to how to make that happen.

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(9) From: C. Clarke Holm

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First, we must understand who is who and what is what. Meaning are you promoting the false god or the Creator, for the enforcement of the false god is treason against the Creator.

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(10) From: Robert Baty

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We don’t agree on what’s “first”, and so, no, that is not what we must understand “first”. If you are interested in advancing the proposed discussion, we can negotiate the details as to how to accomplish that. If you aren’t interested, looks like it ain’t going to happen. Keep me advised should you become interested and wish to proceed in producing the proposed discussion.

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(11) From: C. Clarke Holm

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Im not interested in the enforcement of the false god. Im interested in exposing the false god.

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(12) From: C. Clarke Holm

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Now is this so-called discussion about a false god that sits upon a throne in a courtroom arena where the false prophet lawyers bring one into war?

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(13) From: Robert Baty

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I did not ask you about your theological musings.
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I advised you to let me know if you were interested in discussing my affirmative claim that “the State of Alabama was legally and factually justified in taking custody of Baby Holm in October of 2016, based on the provisions of Alabama Code Section 12-15-306.”
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I might still be available if you decide you are interested in engaging in that discussion. Let me know if you change your mind.

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(14) From: C. Clarke Holm

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No one can ever be justified by enforcing the false god, for this is treason against the Creator no matter what false abstract laws they are promoting for profit. Family is the core of existence which derives from substance love from the true original ground of thought, Nature.

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(15) From: Robert Baty

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You have already convinced me that you are not interested in or able to be open and honest in discussing my affirmative that “the State of Alabama was legally and factually justified in taking custody of Baby Holm in October of 2016, based on the provisions of Alabama Code Section 12-15-306.”
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Let me know should you change your mind or if you find someone who might be willing to represent you in such a discussion.

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(16) From: C. Clarke Holm

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Any and all laws based upon a lie is never justified. Unless those laws are for computers.

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(17) From: Robert Baty

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If you ever decide to openly and honestly engage the proposed discussion, you will have ample opportunity to try and demonstrate that your claim that “any and all laws based upon a lie are never justified” has some application.
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For now, you are getting ahead of yourself. Let me know if you now wish to begin the negotiations for the proposed discussion and we can try to work out those logistical details to try and insure a reasonable and reasoned, step by step, discussion of my proposition that “the State of Alabama was legally and factually justified in taking custody of Baby Holm in October of 2016, based on the provisions of Alabama Code Section 12-15-306.”

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(18) From: C. Clarke Holm

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Is this discussion about the natural laws of the true original ground of thought?

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(19) From: Robert Baty

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The proposed discussion would have me affirming (i.e., explaining why I believe) “the State of Alabama was legally and factually justified in taking custody of Baby Holm in October of 2016, based on the provisions of Alabama Code Section 12-15-306.”
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After presenting my case for the affirmative, you would have the opportunity to respond to my affirmative, and we could repeat the cycle according to our negotiated agreement.
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Once we finished, if there was some affirmative claim you wanted to make that you thought I might dispute, you would be welcome to take that up.

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(20) From: C. Clarke Holm

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If not, then the discussion is based upon a foundational idea that is a lie of the true original ground of thought?

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(21) From: C. Clarke Holm

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If everything upon the artificial backwards foundation of false ideas is a lie on top of the organic forwards ground of true thought then why must anyone obey any of those unnatural laws?

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(22) From: Robert Baty

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Your notions about the proposed discussion are not relevant, and you are welcome to characterize them as you see fit. However, the discussion itself is intended to be a reasoned and reasonable exchange of ideas on the proposition that “the State of Alabama was legally and factually justified in taking custody of Baby Holm in October of 2016, based on the provisions of Alabama Code Section 12-15-306.”
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Let me know if you ever feel up to it or find a representative to do what you don’t care to do.

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(23) From: C. Clarke Holm

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What proof do you have that this discussion is not based upon a lie?

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(24) From: C. Clarke Holm

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Are those codes the law of the snake?
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(25) From: Robert Baty
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If you response to my affirmative presentation(s) is that it’s all just a lie, that will be fine with me. I already know you think such things, and you will be welcome to try and make your case for that if and when you think it appropriate in the course of the discussion, if you ever decide to deal openly and honestly with me and we can work out the logistics and make it happen.
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We have the proposition.
We just need to work out the reasonable related logistical details before I make my first presentation for your response.
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(26) From: C. Clarke Holm
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Who is this Alabama?
Are they of the Creator?
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(27) From: Robert Baty
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If you have issues with those questions, you will be able to raise them if and when you think they are relevant if we ever are able to produce the proposed discussion.
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(28) From: C. Clarke Holm
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First, we need to figure out who this Alabama is and if they are of the Creator, for if they are not then what verified authority do they have over my family?
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(29) From: Robert Baty
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Nope! See my earlier comments regarding your attempt to dictate how the proposed discussion might be taken up.
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If you have issues regarding “who Alabama is, et al”, you can try to make your case for whatever it is you think about that in response to one or my of my affirmative presentations, where it might be deemed relevant.
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You are still convincing that you have no serious interest in discussing whether or not “the State of Alabama was legally and factually justified in taking custody of Baby Holm in October of 2016, based on the provisions of Alabama Code Section 12-15-306.”
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Let me know if that changes and we can begin the negotiations.
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(30) From: C. Clarke Holm
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Until you can verify to me that Alabama is not of the false god and the codes are not the law of the snake then no need to go any further, for what cannot be proven with substance based upon the original ground of thought is a lie.
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(31) From: Robert Baty
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Your exit strategy from even this simple exercise was readily apparent from the beginning, but I am long-suffering and have been willing to bear with you and give you the chance to come out, come clean and openly, honestly engage in the proposed discussion.
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As I noted in the beginning of this conversation, it was already apparent you had no serious interest in the proposed discussion.
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Let me know, however, if you change your mind or find someone to represent you in such a discussion.
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(32) From: C. Clarke Holm
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Any and all discussions without substance from the original ground of thought is a lie. Where is the proof these codes from so-called Alabama have substance from the original ground of thought?
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(33) From: Robert Baty
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The reality is that such musings and inane questions as you just posted are not relevant to the proposition set forth being true, but I am more than willing for you to present your case for such things in response to my affirmatives, if you ever decide to come out, come clean and openly, honestly engage the discussion.
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The State of Alabama was legally and factually justified in taking custody of Baby Holm in October of 2016, based on the provisions of Alabama Code Section 12-15-306.
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– Robert Baty: Affirm
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(34) From: C. Clarke Holm
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To be an honest discussion then it must be of the knowledge about the original ground of thought, for any and all foundations are a false idea of this original thought. Unless you can meet me on the original ground of thought then you are only promoting the lie.
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(35) From: C. Clarke Holm
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I will not condone the lie any longer.
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(36) From: Robert Baty
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I don’t think so, but, as I stated before, your exit strategy was clear from the beginning. Let me know if you change your mind and decide to face me, keyboard to keyboard and advance the proposed discussion.
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(37) From: C. Clarke Holm
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Are you going to lie?
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(38) From: Robert Baty
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If it becomes appropriate we can trade accusations regarding who is lying, and deal with them accordingly.
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Let me know if you change you mind and want to advance a discussion of the following:
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The State of Alabama was legally and factually justified in taking custody of Baby Holm in October of 2016, based on the provisions of Alabama Code Section 12-15-306.
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– Robert Baty: Affirm
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Good night!
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(39) From: C. Clarke Holm
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Good night brother.

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In an apparent attempt to provide some cover for the above performance by C. Clarke Holm, Danielle Holm followed as shown below (excerpts) with a post to her own page at the link shown:
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(40) From: Danielle Holm
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Witchcraft SPELLS: A spell or charm is a set of words, spoken or unspoken, which are considered by its user to invoke some magical effect.

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The devil shall come to you in the mask of love and give you what you so selfishly desire in the form of addiction and dependency (possessions, technology and devices which are all anti-life and YES I am using technology right now, to try and help my brothers and sisters awaken to the fact they are UNDER a SPELL in this technology.

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I am using this technology but I realized what the spell is and can drop it immediately.

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I am no longer addicted to the technology itself, but rather use it to speak to those who are not in front of me right now to help others see what we see).

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The mind control makes you deny your own self until you are completely lost and cannot even realize there is a spell or curse on you.

The entire legal system is a set of WORDS spoken or unspoken that are considered by its user (“law experts” as Jesus called them), to invoke some magical effect (power/authority). Judges, attorneys, all government officials are under severe delusions of witchcraft spells that they believe is real. It is literally nothing more than a spell.

Anyone who exposes the witchcraft of LAW which is actually its very own religion called the “BAR” which 100% goes against the Creator of all that LIVES within CREATION where the LAW is LOVE/DO NO HARM/ LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR, WILL be HATED just as Jesus was hated, and all prophets that have ever lived.

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Why?

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Because they come speaking for the Creator, as elder spirits to give messages of FREEDOM and HOPE, free of this witchcraft, so automatically those blind and bound under this delusion of the devil which is the very witchcraft that has them blind and bound, they will oppose the ones exposing their witchcraft, because it is THEIR religion in which although binding and bounding them, has promised them riches, glory, authority, and power temporarily on Earth.

What they do not understand is, because they are under this spell, they have become a part of the destruction of the entire world.

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This is what spells do.

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The only way to stop being a part of it, is to wake up realizing you are under a spell, and snap out of it, to break the spell away from you.

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This means look around you.

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…if you have a hard time admitting you are a part of the destruction, as WE also are, you are under a spell.

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Because not one person is innocent of this grave sin.

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But, the moment you admit, and repent is the moment we can all move forward, together as one family.

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We have all been lied to brothers and sisters.

All of us.

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The entire planet is under a spell, of witchcraft by the enforcers of this witchcraft and has been for a very very very long time.

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Call this a very long, game of psychological warfare in which the adversary is in a war for your mind and forces your mind to lie to itself.

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It is time to set your minds free.

Follow the truth.

Follow the way.

Follow the LIGHT and LIFE.

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Expose this spell for what it is, and help all of our brothers and sisters to no longer be under this spell, so that we can finally live in peace and harmony with each other and the entire universe the way the Creator intended for us all.

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Update March 13, 2018

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From C. Clarke Holm’s latest thread on his FaceBook page at:

https://www.facebook.com/christian.clarke.holm/posts/1638841292858085

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(41) From: C. Clarke Holm

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I love him. Wish someone like him (JFK) was available in the government today so that I could go and speak with my brother about our child being held against his will and as a possession. We all have our sins to deal with but at the moment one decides to release them and stand for truth, one is forgiven, for to stand for truth is to stand with the Creator.

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(42) From: Robert Baty

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Christian Holm, you wrote, in part:
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– “Wish someone like him (JFK) was available
– in the government today so that I could go
– and speak with my brother about our child…”
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You and Danielle don’t need anyone in Government to speak with about Baby Holm at this late date. You needed to listen to those in Government that would have helped you do your part to insure the return of Baby Holm, but you would not. Even now, God has sent me to counsel you and you have rejected the counsel of God.
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Your reference included the following attributed to Dante:
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– “The hottest places in hell are reserved for
– those who, in a time of moral crisis, maintain
– their neutrality.”
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Dante might have described the “hottest place” as reserved for such as you who have not chosen neutrality but the wrong side; sacrificing your child in order to promote your own UNgodly (i.e., “odd”) notions and sovereign citizen legal theories. Fortunately, despite your antics, Baby Holm appears to be in a better place with the prospects for a better life regardless of where you decide to go with what’s left of your life.

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(43) From: C. Clarke Holm

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Great. Before we get into this discussion. We need to discern between the good and evil of the tree of knowledge. We need to make sure that you dont serve the false god. Alright?

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(44) From: C. Clarke Holm

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First, upon the true ground of thought and or natural laws, does the true ground of thought need letters numbers symbols and or geometry to exist?

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(45) From: C. Clarke Holm

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Second, upon the false foundation of ideas and or the false abstract laws, does the false foundation of ideas on top of the true ground of thought need letters numbers symbols and or geometry to exist?

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(46) From: C. Clarke Holm

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False foundation of ideas being the artificial commerce cities.

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(47) From: C. Clarke Holm

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Third, do these false pattern codes of letters numbers symbols and or geometry exist anywhere in Creation and or Nature?

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(48) From: C. Clarke Holm

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Fourth, does the codes that you are trying to enforce upon my family exist of these false patterns as well? If so, then how does the false knowledge of the false god apply to my family?

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(49) From: Robert Baty

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There you go again, presuming to talk “at” me instead of being open and honest enough to agree to engage me in a reasoned and reasonable discussion of the issue you brought up and which I addressed in my message above.
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When you are ready to speak, as you say, “with” me instead of “at” me, that proposal of mine remains outstanding:
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Proposition for Discussion
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The State of Alabama was factually and legally
justified in taking custody of Baby Holm in
October of 2016, under the provisions of
Alabama Code Section 12-15-306.
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– Robert Baty: Affirm
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If you have what you think a more appropriate proposition that YOU wish to affirm for discussion and which might interest me, feel free to suggest it for my consideration.

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(50) From: C. Clarke Holm

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Answer the four questions so that we can discern between the good and evil knowledge.

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(51) From: Robert Baty

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The obvious truth of my position on that proposition appears to be something you just “can’t handle” openly and honestly.
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We need not re-visit the same ground covered yesterday, which I have archived at the following link, along with today’s additions.
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http://kehvrlb.com/holm-v-baty-03-12-2018-exchange
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Comments are allowed there, if you or your people want to get out of your “echo chamber” and requite my love a bit.

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(52) From: C. Clarke Holm

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If one cannot prove their codes have substance than one cannot enforce those codes upon another, for to enforce false codes is to enforce the false god upon the innocent.

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(53) From: C. Clarke Holm

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More of your preaching “at” me, but it only goes to provide a further demonstration of your suspected mental illness and its progression (worsening, not getting better).
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You “can’t handle” the truth of my proposition, and you have none of your own to have considered.
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Maybe I can help you, but you mostly have to help yourself if you want a serious discussion of your problems with the custody of Baby Holm.
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If this, based on your last post, is something you might want to discuss “with” me, just let me know and maybe we can advance the discussion:
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Proposition for Discussion
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Alabama Code Section 12-15-306 has no
substance and, therefore, could not have
been enforced in the Baby Holm case.
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– C. Clarke Holm: Affirm
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We might actually discuss both your proposition and mine in the same engagement, if you ever get serious about taking part in such an exercise. One affirmative for me, and one for you, with logistical details to be worked out by mutual agreement between us.

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(54) From: C. Clarke Holm

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The greatest delusion ever is Satan’s false image by way of symbology and false patterns that do not even exist anywhere in Creation and or Nature of active life.

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(55) From: Robert Baty

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That’s a lie, but that’s an issue for another time if we ever get past the “root” issue(s) regarding the taking of Baby Holm by the State of Alabama in October of 2016.
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Still, you can’t bring yourself to commit to discussing my position and have again refused to present your own relevant affirmative for my consideration.
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Let me know if you change your mind, repent, and with to talk “with me” in order to advance the proposed discussion of the Baby Holm custody issues.

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(56) From: C. Clarke Holm

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Prove these letters numbers symbols geometry and or time exists within Nature anywhere and that they are not false codes. Then we can talk.

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(57) From: Robert Baty

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You are familiar with court proceedings, so maybe you will understand when I enter my “objection, relevance”.
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You can talk “with me” whenever you might repent and decide to take up some substantive matter regarding the issue(s) involved in the taking of Baby Holm by the State of Alabama in October of 2016.
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You “can’t handle” the truth of my proposition regarding that, and you again let pass the opportunity to present your own, relevant affirmative position.

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(58) From: C. Clarke Holm

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They must be proven to exist in order for them to apply.

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(59) From: C. Clarke Holm

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And or for them to be of truth and not based upon a lie.

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(60) From: Robert Baty

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If you refuse to work “with me” to discuss my position/proposition, and refuse to present your own proper position/proposition on the issue(s), we simply are not going to have anything to discuss.
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You let pass, without comment, my previous suggestion as to what you might be getting at relevant to the custody of Baby Holm.
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Here’s another one I might suggest for you based on your latest evasions:
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Proposition for Discussion
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Alabama Code Section 12-15-306 does
not exist and is not of truth, but a lie.
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– C. Clarke Holm: Affirm
– Robert Baty: Deny
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Again I would suggest our engagement, if we can produce it, reflect our discussion of both your proposition and mine.

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(61) From: C. Clarke Holm

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(Colorful image posted with definitions of “evidence”, “organic”, “substance”.)

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(62) From: C. Clarke Holm

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Does any of the evidence to your codes consist of living matter and or have substance? If not then those codes are for robots.

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(63) From: C. Clarke Holm

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(Colorful image posted with definitions of “ground”, “foundation”, “lie”.)

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(64) From: C. Clarke Holm

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Are these codes based upon the original ground of thought or are they based upon a foundation of lies?

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(65) From: C. Clarke Holm

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(Colorful image with definitions of “fraud”, “artificial”, “virus”.)

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(66) From: C. Clarke Holm

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Are these codes for financial gain? Are these codes produced by human beings or of something natural? If they are of the artificial and not of the natural then they are a virus.

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(67) From: C. Clarke Holm

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(Colorful image with definitions of “trap”, “separation”, “deceiver”.)

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(68) From: C. Clarke Holm

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Does the Judge sit upon a throne based on an artificial backwards foundation of lies? Is the Judge trying to extract substance for use and or rejection?

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(69) From: C. Clarke Holm

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(Colorful image with definitions of “reality”, “illusion”, “game”, “player/actor”, “pawn”, “puppet”.)

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70. From: C. Clarke Holm

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(Colorful image of definitions for “protect”, “serve”, “peace”.)

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(71) From: C. Clarke Holm

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Does the public officials protect and serve the plant animal and or the natural state of things? Do they give food and water to people for free? Do they stop the process of War? Is the courtroom not War against the people?

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(72) From: C. Clarke Holm

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I have presented facts and evidence within definitive codes of our existence.

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(73) From: Robert Baty

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Defining the terms you may wish to use in presenting the affirmative basis for your position on the proposition would be appropriate at such a time as we reach an agreement on how best to advance our discussions.
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Right now, they are irrelevant because we have not agreed upon propositions to discuss.
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You have refused to accept my proposition and refused to present one of your own for my consideration; while refusing those I have suggested based on your own statements here.
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Doesn’t sound like you have anything to discuss “with me” and I reject your UNgodly claims to be qualified to talk “at me” as if a messenger of God, and I reject your actual posts directed “at me”.
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Let me know if you decide there is something of mutual interest you want to discuss “with me”. For now, my proposition and position remains unrebutted.
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The State of Alabama was legally and factually
justified in taking custody of Baby Holm in
October of 2016, based on the provisions of
Alabama Code Section 12-15-306.
 
Good night!

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(74) From: C. Clarke Holm

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I have proven the false god and you have not rebutted. Goodnight brother.

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(75) From: Robert Baty

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Liar!

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(76) From: C. Clarke Holm

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Rebutt it with evidence showing my evidence wrong then.

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(77) From: Robert Baty

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Proposition for Discussion
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C. Clarke Holm has proven “the false god”.
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– C. Clarke Holm: Affirm
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If you want to include that in our discussion, along with my proposition, we can do that and see how you come out after we take up my proposition.
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If that is acceptable to you, we can, tomorrow, work out the other logistical details appropriate to the production of our exchange on my proposition and yours at the top of this message.

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(78) From: C. Clarke Holm

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I gave evidence within definitive code that the artificial reality is the false knowledge that goes against the true knowledge and therefore doesn’t apply to organic beings, for we are not artificial.

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(79) From: C. Clarke Holm

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I am within the artificial reality that is a lie of the true organic reality but I do not lie about the facts and evidence of truth about all realities. I am of the truth.

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(80) From: Robert Baty

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Liar!
 
However, I accept your refusal to commit yourself to working “with me” to produce an exchange of our diverse ideas as a basis for concluding this correspondence.
 
Good night……….again!

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Holm v. Baty – 03/12/2018 Exchange! — No Comments

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