Watch for Updates

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Proposition #2 for Debate

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Structuring requires 2 or more transactions
of $10,000 or less,
on the same day,
that total more than $10,000.
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– Kent Hovind: Affirm
– Joseph Edward: Affirm

– Robert Baty: Deny

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After an exchange on the FaceBook page of Robert Stanley and a related private exchange via FaceBook Messenger, dated September 19, 2017, Joseph Edward and Robert Baty have agreed to debate/discuss the above proposition which reflects the issue Kent Hovind claims is fundamental to understanding his legal problems.

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Link to Robert Stanley page discussion:

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https://www.facebook.com/rl.stanley.3/posts/339462883181894

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Joseph Edward FaceBook page link:

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https://www.facebook.com/josephedwardhughes

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Robert Baty FaceBook page link:

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https://www.facebook.com/robert.baty.1

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Additional details remain to be worked out regarding the advancement of the proposed discussion/debate.

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Due to personal circumstances regarding both participants, the debate/discussion may take more than a couple of weeks to develop.

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UPDATE September 20, 2017

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Following is the substance of the exchange between Joseph & Robert via Robert Stanley’s FaceBook page on September 19, 2017.

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UPDATE October 8, 2017

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Joseph Edward has indicated his response, his first affirmative or other statement, will be posted to the comments section of this page.

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Waiting!

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UPDATE 10/13/2017 – Joseph Edward Withdraws!

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UPDATE October 14, 2017

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My Response To The Above

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The following response has been posted on numerous FaceBook pages.

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I just noticed that Joseph Edward “shared” my post to his page and added the following comments:

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https://www.facebook.com/josephedwardhughes/posts/1972481829693166

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(Begin quote.)

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I (Joseph Edward) withdrew from the debate

because I felt led to no longer do this debate,

and the LORD confirmed it with multiple people

advising me to not do this.

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God’s Will be done, and

He has led me to not participate in this debate.

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(End quote.)

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That’s simply not true, but I would like to find out who the cowardly sorts are that advised Joseph and what, specifically they advised apart from “don’t do it”.

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The reality of it the matter is that God and Joseph and I know that Kent’s claim regarding “structuring” is false and Joseph had nothing to offer that could be reasonably concluded to be any kind of legal basis for what Kent and his people have been claiming for years.

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Shame on Joseph and his advisers who are trying to lay it off on God when they could have, should have simply come out publicly and admitted they could NOT, NOT, NOT defend Kent Hovind’s false legal narrative.

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– Robert Baty

– October 14, 2017

– 6:45 PM MT

 
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My Response To The Above

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Joseph Edward v. Robert Baty

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Update!

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Propositions for Discussion (after the “structuring” position Joseph Edward pledged himself to defend is resolved):

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#1

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The LORD confirmed Joseph Edward’s decision to withdraw from the debate with Robert Baty with multiple people advising him to not do it.

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– Joseph Edward: Affirm

– Robert Baty: Deny

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#2

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Robert Baty’s denial of the above claim by Joseph Edward is an unrighteous and invalid judgement.

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– Joseph Edward: Affirm

– Robert Baty: Deny

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#3

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Joseph Edward has biblical grounds to say that it would be a Godly and Wise decision to no longer take part in the “structuring” debate with Robert Baty.

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– Joseph Edward: Affirm

– Robert Baty: Deny

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UPDATE October 15, 2017 – Joseph Edward Is Back

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Joseph Edward asked to join my Hovind FaceBook page and was allowed to do so.  Among other comments, he posted the following at the link below.

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https://www.facebook.com/groups/kenthovindsworstnightmare/permalink/851555061680291/

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My Response to Joseph Edward

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For background, see:

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http://kehvrlb.com/joseph-edward-v-robert-baty-structuring

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The proposition Joseph Edward pledged himself to defend was:

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Structuring requires 2 or more transactions

of $10,000 or less,

on the same day,

that total more than $10,000.

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– Kent Hovind: Affirm

– Joseph Edward: Affirm

– Robert Baty: Deny

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This is not rocket science, Joseph Edward.

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You either have a legal reference to support the claim, or you don’t.

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If you have one, you could have simply posted it a long time ago.

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You may post it now if you have one.

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If you have none, you should be man enough to admit it.

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I don’t see much controversy over you decision to back out. It was not unexpected.

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What I contest and deny is your claim that God is responsible for your decision.

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Update October 16, 2017

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Link to FaceBook Summary of Clemensen/Edward Dispute

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https://www.facebook.com/groups/kenthovindsworstnightmare/permalink/852016538300810/

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UPDATE October 22, 2017

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In response to the above FaceBook Messenger message, I have posted the following in various venues on FaceBook on October 22, 2017.

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(Begin quote.)

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Joseph Edward / Edward Joseph / Kelly Clemensen
v.
Robert Baty
.
UPDATE!
.
Instead of simply posting a legal reference or admit he had none, in support of his pledge to defend Kent Hovind’s “structuring” claim, the Kelly’s Kid has gone undercover.
.
How many times have we seen such antics.
.
I wrote in response:
.
(Begin quote.)
.
Let me see if I get this straight, Joseph.
.
You continue to refuse to reveal what,
if any, legal reference you have that anyone
thinks supports the Hovind “structuring”
claim or admit that you never had any such
thing, and, instead of face up to your problem
you have gone undercover making one of
your pages unaccessible and another with
only limited information publicly available.
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Cute, Joseph, really cute.
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I would have preferred that you were open
and honest enough to post your reference
or admit that you had none.
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(End quote.)
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References:
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Article on the Debate:
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http://kehvrlb.com/joseph-edward-v-robert-baty-structuring
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Joseph Edward / Edward Joseph FaceBook Address:
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https://www.facebook.com/reverendjedward01272017
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ReverendJEdward FaceBook Address:
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https://www.facebook.com/reverendjedward
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Related Thread Links in This Group:
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https://www.facebook.com/groups/kenthovindsworstnightmare/permalink/852016538300810/
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https://www.facebook.com/groups/kenthovindsworstnightmare/permalink/854332438069220/
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https://www.facebook.com/groups/kenthovindsworstnightmare/permalink/853935884775542/
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https://www.facebook.com/groups/kenthovindsworstnightmare/permalink/853013404867790/
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https://www.facebook.com/groups/kenthovindsworstnightmare/permalink/851555061680291/
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(End quote.)

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Update October 25, 2017

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https://www.facebook.com/groups/kenthovindsworstnightmare/permalink/856520274517103/

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Joseph Edward v. Robert Baty – Update!
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A short time ago, Joseph Edward applied for membership in this group. He had been a member and had agreed to defend Kent Hovind’s “structuring” claim as given my Proposition #2 of my challenge to Kent Hovind.
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See:
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http://kehvrlb.com/proposition-2-hovind-v-baty-structuring
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and
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http://kehvrlb.com/joseph-edward-v-robert-baty-structuring
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As quick as he applied for membership and I tried to approve it, Joseph appears to have withdrawn his request.
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However, he did contact me separately and the images below reflect that exchange regarding these important public issues.
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UPDATE October 31, 2017

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It just occurred to me that not all that long ago I had another relationship with another kid like Joseph Edward, and Kent Hovind and his people liked to accuse me of stalking that kid and of otherwise being abusive towards him.

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That kid was Timothy Bukowski, and he’s got his own somewhat active YouTube channel where he promotes what interests him and his ministry.

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Here’s a link to the YouTube broadcast from Timothy that followed our relationship.

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Update November 7, 2017

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From: Joseph Edward

Date: November 7, 2017

Time: 12:30 PM MT

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This is one of my legal references:

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https://www.irs.gov/irm/part4/irm_04-026-013#idm140512334160800 


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From: Robert Baty

Date: November 7, 2017

Time: 12:35 PM MT

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Thanks for making the effort, Joseph, but do you even know what you are referencing with that? No evidence that you do!
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I notice you again fail miserably to even quote from the article, much less quote anything that supports Kent Hovind’s “structuring” claim that you pledged your self to defend.

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Maybe your lame effort is somewhat of a good sign.
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I will suggest you find something, somewhere that actually purports to support the proposition that:
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“Structuring requires 2 or more transactions
of $10,000 or less,
on the same day,
that total more than $10,000.”
.
– Kent Hovind: Affirm
– Joseph Edward: Affirm

– Robert Baty: Deny


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From: Joseph Edward

Date: November 7, 2017

Time: 12:37 PM MT

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Robert,

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I knowingly gave minimal, since that is what you requested, a legal reference.

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I just would like to know, what drives you to spend the time of your life to “expose” Kent?


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From: Robert Baty

Date: November 7, 2017

Time: 12:40 PM MT

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Joseph, all you had to do was give a citation and quote that established, if such was possible, that,
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“Structuring requires 2 or more transactions
of $10,000 or less,
on the same day,
that total more than $10,000.”
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You did not do that!
.
Feel free to try again or admit you have no such legal citation.
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I am not going to try and guess where you get from your reference that conclusion since I deny that such conclusion is anywhere in your reference.
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If you think it’s in there somewhere, feel free to provide the quote for my consideration.

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Update November 22, 2017

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Joseph Edward and I have re-engaged on the issue, at his request, and that renewed debate is now featured at the following link:

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https://www.facebook.com/groups/kenthovindsworstnightmare/permalink/870377309798066/

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Comments

Joseph Edward v. Robert Baty – “Structuring”! — 5 Comments

  1. Joseph Edward sent this to me in the early morning hours of October 16, 2017!
    .
    (Begin quote.)
    .
    Dear Reader:
    .
    I refuse to debate with Robert Baty for a plurality of reasons.
    .
    The first being that I am convicted by the LORD to not participate
    in this activity. I have been led to not do this, and I believe
    the LORD confirmed my doubted convictions by sending multiple
    people advising me to no longer take place in this debate. I have
    Biblical ground on my decision and refuse to go any further.
    .
    I have seen a rumor that has said I probably accept the flat earth theory.
    .
    That is simply and absolutely false. I see no scientific evidence
    for it whatsoever and I believe that all scientific evidence points
    to a Young Earth. I accept the Heliocentric theory. Regarding my
    FEMA video, it is a theory, there is no evidence for it, and I
    question the accuracy of that myself.
    .
    I have not researched the incident in Las Vegas, so therefore I
    have no comment on that.
    .
    My views are strongly and deeply Biblically Conservative.
    .
    I deny the evolution theory and accept the Young Earth Creationist
    view.
    .
    I accepted JESUS CHRIST as my personal LORD and SAVIOR January
    27’th of this year at 9:07 P.M.
    .
    I am Saved by nothing more and nothing less than the BLOOD OF
    JESUS CHRIST! I do not believe in any sort of works by Salvation
    (Ephesians 2:8-9, “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and
    that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works,
    lest any man should boast.) I am a Biblical Christian. God Loves
    you, and if you die today, where would you go?
    .
    Finally, I say to you, I will not answer any questions that originate
    from the debate because I will not debate.
    .
    I have said all I need to say in this statement, and I hope that it
    is satisfactory. I hold no hatred, bitterness, or hard feelings
    towards Robert Baty. I love and Pray for him just as any other human
    being I know, and I respect him as my elder. I may not agree with him
    or those who read this, but I will clarify that I will not and never
    have held any hard feelings towards Robert or anyone I have come across.
    .
    It Is In the MASTER’S Service,
    yours,
    Joseph Edward
    .
    (End quote.)
    .

    • @ Joseph Edward
      .
      You have no good reason for withdrawing from the debate,
      and you have no good reason for refusing, to this date,
      to simply post the legal reference you claim you have
      which supports Kent Hovind’s “structuring” claim or admit
      that you never had such a thing.
      .

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